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Changing League

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Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 261 days ago

Jack
This evening a place became available in a league I have been wanting to join for a few weeks so I jumped at the chance. I had been competing in "Everyone Welcome" and was three races into the season with total DP of something like 390, having begun the season with 329.
I understand that there has to be some penalty to prevent managers developing a car then league hopping but the current penalty is crippling and unfair. My car reset to 1 dp in each category and a further 12 were given to me to allocate where I wanted. Add the 3 dp from suppliers and I start the season in one of the most competitive leagues with 23 dp and to add insult to injury I was also fined 10% of my bank balance!
It would have been much fairer to have reset the team to the starting point of the season in my last league, in this case 329 dp.
So now I go to Australia with a car that uses 3.5 litres of fuel per lap and SS tyre wear of 15% per lap. My objective is not to be lapped three times!
Any chance of reviewing this to make it a bit fairer?

CEO & CTO
8 years 261 days ago

I will look into fairer balancing definitely, that does sound harsh. The problem with giving too many design points off the bat is that you can put them where you want. If you get a comparable overall amount to those in the league you can actually be at an advantage to league-hop because you could put it all on one attribute for example and get an advantage in that area.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 261 days ago

Thanks for the response Jack. If the database keeps track of each team's dp what I'm suggesting is to reset any team that moves league back to the design they had at the beginning of the season in the league they moved from with zero dp for the manager to allocate.
In this way if they join a league at the beginning of a season they should be relatively competitive from the start, if they join mid season they'll have some catching up to do because the rest of the managers will have been able to develop their cars but the newcomer hasn't.
This would allow managers to legitimately move league for the start of a season but disadvantage league hoppers. Does this make sense?

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 261 days ago

Alternatively and simpler, for an elite tier team assign 30 dp for each attribute and no points for the manager to allocate. This should give a team a fighting chance of finishing on the same lap if moving at the beginning of a season but would still penalise managers if they attempt to move into a league part way through a season.
The number of points allocated would probably need to be reduced for Pro and Rookie leagues.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 261 days ago

The real issue for me is that I've been playing iGP for over two years and have managed to slowly claw my way into the HOF top twenty. Starting with only 23 dp, by the end of this season I'll be lucky to avoid relegation and will most likely drop out of the HOF top 100 and it's going to take many months to repair the damage to my reputation points.

Brijesh Singh
8 years 260 days ago

I had filled the Kevin vacated slot in his Everyone welcome league and the disaster happened with me as well I was bit in better condition compare to Kevin I got 34 dp's to start with. still the risk of relegating is horrifying me as well I was in a very less competitive league prior to this and got habitual of winning the races on races now after this season in the new league I need to start again in Pro tier if got relegated, let's hope for best.
Thanks Kevin for highlighting this
being a highly reputed manager u will face heat more than any other league hopper so the hazard due to the dp assignment on hopping will be more visible and can be understood the need of revising it as u suggested.
And obviously it to be done on the priority for you in order to retain top 100 in HOF

CEO & CTO
8 years 260 days ago

Research will of course be much more effective from where you both are, and you'll be closing the gap down quickly to the rival teams. How much of a help is that?

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 260 days ago

Jack, MJL is extremely competitive with experienced high ranking managers such as Kimi, Marcel and Nelson (just as an example, all the managers are top tier). Starting the season with 23 dp when most of the others are 320+ means it will be race 12 - 14 before I am competitive enough to have any chance of finishing in the top 10. Research will help but I need to spread my focus across at least six attributes so the gains will be very slow.
In a nutshell, research helps but the gap is too big.

Gary Collyer
8 years 260 days ago

i joined my league before first race last week, everyone else would of had 300+ points for first race and "The governing body have reset your designs to 1 in every part and awarded 13 Design Points to balance your team within its new league" so thats 24 points in total with suppliers for first race against 300+, and u never properly catch up unless your a bit clever with when you use design points, its about desperately trying to survive relegation before you can play properly at start of next season. Punishment for moving leagues before a season starts is just criminal :p

And research just isn't powerful enough when u are that far behind.

Gary Collyer
8 years 260 days ago

for example there was at least one team who had 50 in each design part somewhere in league and all mine are at 3 design points, if chose to spy all 8 parts for first race (x6% power) you would would get 3 points on each part so i'll be a 6 in each part for race two and they would still be 50 in each part (best ones)...... see what i mean..
then id get another 3 points on each part for race three so then i'll be at 9 in each part and the best still at 50.

I B
8 years 260 days ago

@Kevin

I was in a similar position with another account and yes it's painful to see how much of a penalty there is for changing leagues.

In Australia I was 90 secs behind the leader and came in 27th, in Turkey I got my first points and was on the podium in 3 of the last 4 races of that season. Research is possibly more powerful than you think.

While I sympathise and do think the penalty is on the harsh side I don't think this season is going to be the car crash you're expecting. If Jack is willing to do the transfer I'll even bet you 100 tokens you won't be relegated.

imo starting a new league with the car you had at the beginning of the previous season would be too generous,

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 260 days ago

I.B. Yes I agree that if I play the game well I will avoid relegation but it's taken me years to get my reputation points high enough to enter the top 20 and it will take me many months to recover from the setback that will be a direct result of an over the top punishment for moving to a different league which is a more convenient race time during the UK summer months.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 260 days ago

It gets better. I have 23 dp, I am competing against Kimi, Marcel etc. who all have 320+ dp and my objective tonight was...... To win the race!! .
Needless to say I didn't get my bonus and I lost 63 reputation points. Jack you really need to do something about this, it's too late for me but please fix it for others going forward.

Daniel Schupp
8 years 260 days ago

That kind of gap is too harsh indeed. Some punishment would be OK but having a car like the promoted teams would be bad enough. Yes, research is really powerfull and if you handle the DP right you can manage to reach competetiveness for the very last races but being a lonely backrunner most of the races of a season way below the actual strength of the team is still too much of a penalty. Especially if you manage to join in the gap between seasons which should be the ideal time to switch leagues and something you even need quite some luck for to do in some leagues.

Ross Bong
8 years 260 days ago

@Kevin : I think that 2/3 or 3/4 of best teams total points would be a good point to start with, so somewhere between 200 and 250 design points with points automatically scaled.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 260 days ago

I think the dp needs to be auto assigned to prevent managers from being "clever". Also the amount of dp should be a percentage of the league average based on your CD star rating. E.g.
5 star 75%, 4 star 60%, 3 star 45%, 2 star 30%, 1 star 15%.
This would prevent managers from having really cheap 1 star CD's then changing league every season to get lots of design points.

David Parker
8 years 260 days ago (edited 8 years 260 days ago)

I'm going to play devils advocate here. I don't think it's that harsh at all. You said you moved to an elite league full of of competitive managers, but it seems to me that you want to be part of that competition off the bat (or close to it). The system is designed to stop this from happening, because you could just drop into any league at anytime and start winning. In the current system, it takes one full season to get up to scratch, that's not a long time but enough to stop hoppers.

As for the loss of reputation, you will gain it back in your second season. If there are lots of rank 20 managers then your rep gain will be higher, assuming you compete with them. So imo moving leagues is a decision you made by yourself and there should be some deterrent to stop people doing it again and again. I moved to my current league and took a while to get close to a good finish but now my rep is rising much quicker.

I agree that it looks harsh at first, but you will recover quickly enough. Treat it as a set-back. Slight edit: I do agree that the race expectations need changing though, to take the car design point in to consideration.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 259 days ago

David

I'm going to play devils advocate here. I don't think it's that harsh at all. You said you moved to an elite league full of of competitive managers, but it seems to me that you want to be part of that competition off the bat (or close to it). The system is designed to stop this from happening, because you could just drop into any league at anytime and start winning. In the current system, it takes one full season to get up to scratch, that's not a long time but enough to stop hoppers.

As for the loss of reputation, you will gain it back in your second season. If there are lots of rank 20 managers then your rep gain will be higher, assuming you compete with them. So imo moving leagues is a decision you made by yourself and there should be some deterrent to stop people doing it again and again. I moved to my current league and took a while to get close to a good finish but now my rep is rising much quicker.

I agree that it looks harsh at first, but you will recover quickly enough. Treat it as a set-back. Slight edit: I do agree that the race expectations need changing though, to take the car design point in to consideration.

Agreed, penalties should be applied to deter managers from developing their cars to a high level then jumping into a league and dominating it but that's not what is being discussed here.
What we're discussing is a manager moving to another league during the break between seasons and being punished for moving.
Wanting to be part of an elite league full of high reputation managers and being competitive... what's wrong with that? I don't expect to be at the same level but I do expect to be on the same lap. My HOF position before moving was 17 so it's not as if I haven't earned the right to compete with these guys.
Anyway, as I already said too late for any changes to help me but I genuinely believe the penalties to be too harsh and would like to see this reviewed for the benefit of other iGP managers.

I B
8 years 259 days ago

Your issue is coming across as being more with the HOF than the league move penalty (maybe I've misunderstood)

Purely hypothetically, if your reputation points were to be locked for the first season in a new league (assuming you join between seasons), would you still see the current system as such a problem?

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 259 days ago

Hi IB.
Yes HOF is one element but by no means the only one (I lost 63 reputation points yesterday and will probably lose a similar amount tonight). It's not enjoyable playing a game where you're wandering around a lap adrift of everyone else simply because you moved to a different league where the races happen at a more convenient time.
Add to this the fact that I was also fined 10% of my funds and to receive my bonus my objective for the next race was to win with 23 dp! So its a whole lot more than HOF.
Anyway, I've made my point, I shan't be changing league again in the foreseeable future so really I'm just asking for this to be reviewed on behalf of other managers because I think it's to harsh a punishment.

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